Washington Planning Board
Washington Planning Board
Working Meeting Minutes - DRAFT
July 25, 2016
0.0 Assembly: 9:00AM
0.1 Members present: Crandall, Kluk, Schwartz, Dulac and Williams
0.2 Alternates present: Terani and Hatch
0.3 Members and Alternates Absent: Russell
0.4 Visitors: Ed Thayer
Crandall opened the meeting at 9:00 AM, at Camp Morgan Lodge.
1.0 Minutes: July 7th working meeting with F/R, July 11th working meeting, July 15th site visit to Washington General Store
July 7th working meeting with F/R: No changes were requested, Kluk motioned to approve as written, Dulac seconded and all voted in favor.
July 11th working meeting: Terani said he was specifically talking about the support structures, not the foundation and wanted that change made. A “t” was added to the word though(t). Crandall motioned to approve with the changes, Kluk seconded the motion and all voted in favor.
July 15th site visit to Washington General Store: Crandall brought us up-to-date with Curran, who said that Meridian has filed a new septic design with DES; we are waiting for approval from them. He said our approval of the Business Permit is conditional on DES’s approval. Crandall wanted to add to the minutes that the members in attendance decided to write a letter to the Liquor Commission to let them know where we are in the process. He suggested taking some language from the letter to add to the minutes. Hatch asked about the public hearing and whether it was void if we don’t have the DES approval in hand. Crandall said that our approval can be conditional on that approval. Hatch asked how quickly DES will approve and whether Curran understands the issue. Kluk commented that he was very aware at our site visit and showed a willingness to provide us with all the needed materials. Kluk motioned to approve the minutes with the addition, Dulac seconded and all voted in favor.
2.0 Discussion of meeting with Fire Department representatives – Crandall said we meet with the Fire and Rescue departments on Thursday and at the request of the BoS, Williams presented his plan first. Kluk spoke briefly about the meeting with BoS Thursday morning by Kluk and Schwartz. They took Kluk’s plan in to discuss with them and followed up with them concerning the sign and ADU ordinances. She said it was a rough meeting; there were mixed signals about working together and moving forward. Dulac said it seems that they aren’t asking for information, they just want us to ask permission. He felt that today’s meeting should put us in a position for a decision on where we stand. Crandall said that Thursday night Williams presented his plan and the F/R made good points on size, usage and placement of buildings. Dulac handed out a copy of his notes and he went through them for us. Terani thinks we need to clarify the wetland issue, future use of existing buildings and state and federal codes. Hatch said that “maximum feasible compliance” is what DES is looking for with a wetland permit. Crandall said they showed a willingness to go with the middle plan for the Town Hall and Safety building for $3M as agreed last year, but wanted to try to keep it under that figure. Kluk said that Atkins questioned why we were doing this again and she said we had to look at the 2 building solution that utilizes the existing station. They wanted to propose the standing plan at least one more time before moving on to another plan. Dulac said the bottom line is we need to decide how we are going to move forward, go with the BoS and lose the F/R or do we move forward with a petition article on our own. Schwartz said the price keeps going up if we wait until 2018 and we get less for our money each year that passes. Kluk said that there is a third group in town that votes and are looking for a compromise. Crandall thinks this is the outreach we were talking about. Schwartz said we need the input and support of the public before we start to sell something. Hatch said that he felt the BoS was working with Costello on the down low and we can’t ignore that action. He feels they work in a vacuum and don’t want input from users. We aren’t willing to go along with that, so we need to cut ties. The money they won’t give us limits us, but we can still move ahead. Hatch feels frustrated by this process. Dulac agrees with Hatch and feels we can put ourselves in a better position, if we agree with F/R we need to ask for money to get costs. He said we need professional help to get the costs; do we do a warrant article for 2017? Crandall suggested we write a letter to the BoS to let them know what we are doing and ask for funds once again. Crandall hopes they will come along. Dulac said the onus is on us to decide a course of action and make out plans. Kluk wants to make sure we have uses for the buildings that are well reasoned; underutilized buildings are bad. Dulac stated we are the Planning Board; we can come up with a plan for utilization of the buildings over time. Kluk wants to come up with 2 or 3 scenarios for the 3 buildings, then do community outreach. Dulac thinks that means 2017 is off the table. Terani feels the Old Schoolhouse needs analysis. Kluk made a motion for the Planning Board to generate 2 plans that encompass all three buildings, to get community feedback (not special interest feedback) for 2018. Dulac seconded the motion but Crandall is opposed to waiting until 2018. He feels we can get cost estimates within the month and keep the goal of 2017. He thinks we have options for doing this that won’t cost money. Dulac wants a GMP and target $3M, so we need to get real numbers. Terani said you need a contingency built in. Dulac wants to go for 2017 but feels we have limitations, he thinks we need to make a decision today because we don’t want to be out of the picture for this year. Kluk wants “straw man” plans, saying who moves to what building when for temporary quarters and timelines for getting the projects done. She said that the Town Hall and Schoolhouse utilities are tied together so that work needs to be done at the same time. Dulac said that Kluk thinks strategically and he thinks globally, public hearings should be strategic and not confusing to people. We need to agree on how we want to proceed and then come up with a plan to present. Kluk wants community feedback on several plans.
Thayer joined us to talk about the wetland issue on the F/R lot. He said we always knew the wetlands were there, they are low value wetlands and exist because of drainage and existing ledge. He feels they can be mitigated on site but they won’t go away, moving the culvert will just move the water. Kluk asked about septic. Thayer said they dug test pits and Costello was contracted to do a septic design. They had decided to raise the lot by filling instead of blasting the ledge. The decision was to keep the septic where it is. He was shown a plan for this. They were going to build the site up with fill to make the lot on the same level as the existing building. Dulac asked about the wetlands permitting. Thayer believes with some work by Costello the permit would be approved by DES. Terani asked about moving the culvert up Lempster Mountain Road. Thayer said he could move it further up LM Road to divert the runoff and put in swales or ponds to capture the water, mitigation is part of the permitting process.
Crandall asked Thayer about the septic plans for the Town Hall project. Thayer said they were going to do all the site work and access roads. They no longer have someone on staff with a septic license so they have been using Bob Bachand for these projects. Dulac asked if Thayer knew anything about the support structure under the Schoolhouse and he said he has never been under it. Schwartz asked Thayer about routine maintenance done by the DPW and whether they could take on looking after more town buildings. Thayer said this has been discussed in the past. Dulac asked Thayer how it is accounted for when DPW does work for the town. Thayer said that DPW assumes the work cost but materials and needed machinery rental is accounted for by the Town budget. Crandall asked Thayer if the existing F/R station was empty would it be helpful to his department. Thayer said he would be glad to have that space if everything was cleared out (cruiser and all stored equipment), he would use that space for DPW. We thanked Thayer for coming in and answering our questions.
3.0 Discussion of Meeting House options:
Crandall handed out a copy of his narration of what would be included in the Town Hall project. He said they have bid ready plans and specifications for this and some things are excluded from the original plan. Kluk said she has a conflict with some of the language, the lower level means the basement and the top level means the 2nd floor. She said that you need to finish the annex on the main floor in order to have working bathrooms. She felt it wasn’t clear about what is finished and what is not in the annex. She asked if the support for the 2nd floor is included. Crandall said they had a price of $1.6M last year but it was not a GMP. Kluk questioned the costs they had for both projects last year. Dulac thinks it will be higher. Schwartz suggested we go with our option C from our last meeting. Crandall said that the donors would be off the table if we did that ($200K). Kluk said we are wasting our time until a combined warrant article fails, she is worried about other groups not being represented. Dulac said to do something this year we have to go with the plans we have; the F/R plan, the Town Hall plan, donations on the table and sure up the Schoolhouse. We need to decide what we are going to do and present it to the public. Crandall thinks we are 2/3rds there. Hatch said we need to go to the BoS and ask for money to flesh out our plans.
Dulac made a motion that we, as a committee, make the decision to go with the F/R plan and the plan for the Town Hall presented by Crandall (with $200K in donations on the table), the Schoolhouse structural integrity to be maintained and will be included in the bond with any future work on the Schoolhouse to be included in the regular budget. This includes all 3 buildings, subject to cost estimates/changes, to be a $3M combined bond for 20 years, presented as one warrant article for 2017. Crandall is comfortable with that adding that certain spaces are to be completed by the users. Crandall seconded the motion. Terani commented that we have to do something like this because the BoS is keeping us from doing our job. Kluk said sequencing is important and the ultimate use of the buildings need to be part of the plan. Crandall is willing to vote for it if the $3M goal can be revisited. Kluk said the devil is in the details, if you say something is finished or not you need to be clear. Hatch agreed we need to be clear and Dulac said the details will impact the cost and should be subject to public input. Schwartz said that sequencing and use have to be part of our story. Hatch said we can’t just expect people to just believe that we will do the best thing with the new spaces that are unfinished. Kluk said there are a lot of excluded costs in the plan, such as moving cost. She thinks it will reflect on the Planning Board if things aren’t completely thought through. She feels we need to flesh out and work harder to answer questions. Hatch feels that if we put forward the F/R plan, the reaction of the BoS will not be positive. Dulac suggested we approach the BoS with specific request for funds for cost estimates. Crandall thinks we should define what we need money for and send a letter requesting it. Hatch said we had opened up a dialog with he F/R and taken feedback and they want to pursue the scaled back original plan. Kluk wants a structural engineer to look at the Schoolhouse. Dulac wants a structural engineer’s opinion on lifting the Town Hall.
Dulac expressed concern that the ex-officio was not here to vote. Crandall asked for a vote on the motion, all voted in favor. Crandall asked about a letter to the BoS and request for money in order to fulfill our obligation to see if there are additional savings, funds for a structural engineer, cost estimates for both projects including the Schoolhouse. He feels we need to let them know what direction we are going in. Hatch will take a stab at writing the letter and send it to Schwartz and Crandall. Hatch and Dulac have agreed that they will visit the Selectmen on Thursday.
Schwartz shared the list and narrative written on the Schoolhouse.
Adjournment: Time: 12:25 PM
Respectfully Submitted,
Nan Schwartz