Washington Planning Board

Washington Planning Board

Working Meeting Minutes

October 10, 2016

0.0       Assembly: 9AM

0.1       Members present: Crandall, Kluk, Schwartz, Williams and Dulac (joined by phone)

            0.2       Alternates present: Hatch and Terani

0.3       Members and Alternates Absent: Russell

0.4       Visitors: None

1.0       Crandall opened the meeting and said we will go through the materials and see what steps we want to take. Williams asked if the plans Drasba did were what the Monahon pictures reflected. Crandall said yes they are based on Monahon’s first plan for the Town Hall, but the numbers need to be updated. Crandall said that he and Kluk met with Drasba and put together the numbers in the exhibit; Schwartz added a fourth option we can consider. Crandall said it is ironic that the option C comes in at less than Dulac’s hoped for number of $2.6M, but the number still needs to be inflated. Kluk certainly feels comfortable, as she met with Drasba, with the do-ability of the new TH plan, she feels we should try to move it forward and get BoS buy-in, she sees a glimmer of hope for that. Hatch said his recollection is that the BoS wants anything to do with the second floor to be covered by donation and ancillary work. Crandall said he has emailed back and forth with Marshall and he said no to stairway work, second floor bathrooms, and finish of annex or lift, these can be covered by donations. Williams asked if the basement was discussed and why we are not shoring up the existing foundation or doing a crawl space. Crandall says that it is costing $20K to do the full cellar and you must make room to work on the building. Williams says that the basement and the upstairs are the sticking points. Kluk said that the upstairs is being used by private parties. Crandall said that Monahon consulted a structural engineer on the building. Williams says there are questions since there is no written report. Schwartz said that in doing the construction drawings a structural engineer guides the architect on structural issues. Hatch said that the conversation was about the Schoolhouse and bounced back to the Town Hall. Williams asked whether a structural engineer assessed the underneath of the building and also on the main structure of the building, we need to answer that question. Terani asked if we have the cost to shore up the foundation. Williams said he estimates $100K of site work goes away if you shore up the existing foundation. Kluk said Drasba implied that it would be just as expensive to work in such a small space and get the structural work done. Schwartz commented that Marshall said at our meeting that the basement was a given. Williams said that the BoS hasn’t made that decision and that hasn’t changed. Terani asked whether a crawl space or a basement; how do they access the space, from the bank in back of the building? Crandall said they come in from the back, dig a tunnel and then backfill the foundation. Williams asked if DPW could do it. Kluk said we don’t know at this point, we haven’t gotten there yet. Crandall said the $1.307M has to go up for inflation and will be reduced by what needs to be paid for by donation. Kluk said that the existing stairway doesn’t need to be rebuilt, but they need to add handrails. Crandall said that they need to confirm the costs with Drasba. Williams asked how much it would cost to get access to upstairs. Crandall said $50K. Williams asked why would you put in the steel support beam to shore up the floor if you are not using the upstairs. He wants to take an objective look at what we wouldn’t do if we are not using the upstairs. Crandall said the only additional cost is framing the annex to the second floor. He said the LULA lift is $50K and could service all three floors, a lift could service two floors and would cost $30K. Schwartz pointed out the LULA lift cost is not included in the estimated costs (it was left out of the estimated costs of the previous design). Williams said the cost is closer to $100K. Kluk pointed out that with the full basement the LULA shaft needs to go all the way down or you are precluding public access to that level for anytime, this gives us the option of using the space eventually. Williams wants to have the needs versus wants conversation again. Crandall said that going to the basement has nothing to do with going to the second floor. Crandall said that Marshall mentioned these things last Tuesday and we haven’t considered them yet. We now have a list of his concerns and will act on them. Crandall said that the Meeting House people support this plan and will donate to make it happen. Kluk said they did the cost sheet to compare apples to apples; we haven’t gone the next step to work with the BoS to get them to embrace and figure out what needs to be fundraised. Do we spend the time to do that? Crandall said the cost for the archives are not in the numbers; we need to decide the fire rating, humidity control system and room size. Kluk said that we could do this room later using CIP money or a warrant article. Dulac commented we need conformation of the structural engineer on the basement and a conversation with the BoS if they are willing to work with us. We are trying to get the BoS with us even without the F/R. Crandall said that speaking for the reduced plan he thinks it is saleable to the public, he would prefer the BoS support but we may not get it. Dulac said that the F/R members are part of the public, they were clear; they want their plan or nothing. Crandall reminded him we are dealing with the Meeting House right now. Kluk said we need to reach out to Drasba again, he is willing to come talk to us, and then we will meet with the BoS again after speaking with Drasba.

            Williams asked if we could get a package together to move ahead. Crandall said that Marshall expressed a willingness to go with the Meeting House only if F/R won’t make changes. Williams said that BoS feels the needs of the F/R departments are the biggest needs of the town. It doesn’t make sense that they would move forward with the Meeting House alone. Terani had another thought about the main pillar in the Meeting House which has come up over the years as a structural issue. Crandall said the matching pillar is in the wall and you can’t move the walls. Schwartz said the problem is with the floor joists and the plan is to sister them to firm up the floor. Kluk asked if we are willing to move this plan forward? Crandall had a motion written up which he shared with the board. The motion is: “Meeting House -We recommend a Warrant Article for the option developed with Dave Drasba (Architect) as presented at our October 4th meeting for a scaled back Meeting House with access to the second floor to be paid by donations, grants, or volunteer labor. We are committed to working with the selectmen to present this plan as a warrant article at Town Meeting”. Four voted in favor of the motion with Williams abstaining. Motion passed.

            Hatch commented that he feels we have come a long way on the Meeting House and made real changes in terms of needs versus wants; there is a small amount of clarification needed. It disappoints him that there is not progress on the F/R project and the BoS focus is on the F/R project but we won’t be able to have a change of course of action. He thinks we should pursue it but BoS may change the conversation again because of the F/R project. Williams doesn’t know what conversations have gone on in his absence. Hatch said that Marshall’s comment that the BoS isn’t getting information from Williams and didn’t know what we were doing is concerning to him. He felt we don’t know where we stand with them, he wants to get together and work on things. Williams said the BoS read our minutes and he fills them in, he is not sure why Marshall said that, he feels the more conversation the better. Terani said we have made good headway, this is a good opportunity to move ahead and F/R should be the priority, he would have voted in favor of the motion. Crandall said that what Terani said echoes how he feels, if we can’t satisfy them (F/R) we won’t be able to do anything. Crandall said that Marshall said he thinks they are locked on their plan. Crandall suggested we reach out to Chief Moser again and scale back the plan similar to plan C (use the existing station and build a barn, maybe connected. Then do a joint warrant article that all parties can support. Dulac said that F/R was clear and we have to accept that position for their full plan until we come up with something else. Hatch agrees, they never got a chance to present their plan at Town Meeting, until rejected by voters they don’t want to look at anything else that hasn’t been fully aired. Hatch said that Marshall said there is a chasm between the BoS and F/R. Schwartz said the F/R departments have their monthly meeting tonight. Crandall said we should let Moser decide who should be at a meeting or pick a plan. Williams asked if it was productive to go have another conversation with them? Do we put their plan forward or come up with another plan, as a board where are we? Dulac said that given what was just said he doesn’t think the PB needs to say we accept the plan put forward by F/R, we understand their position forward or not and the onus is on them. We have to vote to move their plan forward or not. Hatch said where we should stand as a board was stated in our letter to the BoS; we voted to put forward the design with the unfinished admin shell. We went to a meeting with F/R to have another crack at a different plan. Crandall said we superseded that vote with the vote on the MH today. Terani said we have certain comments on specific parts of the plan, you don’t want to build something obsolete in a few years, and we should listen to them on their ideas. Schwartz said we have to give the town a chance to accept or reject the plan. Dulac asked if our position is to accept the plan or not to put it forward. Kluk said we could argue that we were working on the MH to scale back to make the projects more palatable. Dulac said if we cut back one don’t we need to cut back both? What is our clear position on MH and F/R? Do we accept the plan as is or expect them to scale back, we can’t change their minds.

            Kluk said this is a process and there is an old F/R station that needs to be fully utilized, PD needs have changed and we need to see how this building can be used. Schwartz said that Kluk spoke about options for the existing station; Police, Welfare office, a community medical office run by Rescue personnel, etc. why are we not looking at those options for the station? Kluk said that we never got an estimate for what it would take to finish the unfinished admin space. Schwartz said we could get those numbers and a plan for finishing it. Terani said we should have a fresh look at the plan. Williams said that it isn’t F/R’s plan, a large group came up with the plan and we need to recognize that. Hatch said F/R has a building committee, they have supported this plan and it hasn’t been put to the public for a vote. He said when we met with F/R major points of Kluk’s plan were rejected and they said if you are building new you wouldn’t do these things (such as stacking the trucks). We aren’t talking to a MH committee who are working out another plan. He feels it is quite appropriate to view our position on each separately. Kluk asked what is the position of the PB? Williams said he meant what is the plan we support; B or C as a plan. Dulac said that the plan suggested by Hatch (B); they came up with a plan they support, can we support this? Kluk said there is missing information, no estimates for completion of the admin space for her to support. She has come to the realization that utilization of the existing building is important. Dulac suggested Schwartz and Kluk come up with a list of questions by tomorrow and get answers to see if we can support plan B. Crandall said to be contrarian; if the MH plan is C then the F/R plan should be C. Schwartz said he is putting a false equivalence on the projects. They are totally different projects with different needs. Williams said we are at a stalemate; Kluk has issues with the existing station, she wouldn’t vote to move plan B forward today. Williams feels it is time to fish or cut bait and decide if we don’t support the plan. Williams made a motion to “not support Plan B (for the F/R) at this point and say we have no solution to move forward.” He said there was no plan on how to finish the work and that it would result in an empty building which the PB has consistently opposed. Crandall seconded his motion, three voted in favor, Schwartz and Dulac voted no, then Dulac changed his vote to abstain. Motion passed.

            Williams said the board should stop and let petitioners do what they will. F/R will petition and let it happen. Terani asked shouldn’t we know the costs before we decide? Kluk said it is a utilization issue, not a cost issue. Williams asked if we should abandon the issue. Schwartz said we should continue to work on it. Kluk said the frustration is we met with the F/R three times, the Chief didn’t show up the first time, she wasn’t at the last meeting but said there isn’t the feeling that they are willing to work with us. Schwartz pointed out that at the first meeting there was an incident and most F/R members couldn’t be there. Terani said he felt like we are running away from the issue by not meeting with them. Schwartz said we haven’t given them the opportunity to work with us we merely went in to them and put a plan on the table they had no input on. We haven’t given this project the same attention we gave to the MH project and it is unfair to all involved. Crandall said he doesn’t have a problem meeting with them and that we would have spent more time with the FD if they had ever expressed an open mind. Kluk said the finish build out is unknown. Schwartz said that Williams doesn’t want to move forward with anything. Williams said he has spent so much time at WESAC meetings and BoS meetings, this is about the needs of the F/R, this board should be done, we need to understand the utilization and finish costs. Schwartz took back her comment to Williams and said we should have that conversation with F/R. Dulac said he has had that conversation with some members and the full plan with PD in the existing building is their answer, the key is resolution of that issue, the bottom line is he doesn’t accept what they want to do with their building, put it on them to come up with a plan. He suggested we meet with all of F/R and say we don’t accept your solution, come back with a good one. Schwartz asked if we think it is F/R’s responsibility to come up with a plan for the existing building. Williams asked what is the goal of that meeting? Dulac said we don’t have a plan. Hatch said at the BoS meeting Krygeris said he couldn’t support another town building we have to take care of. Williams said the question on the table is are we going to keep working on this? Crandall said if they come up with a new idea we will consider it. Williams asked if we should take a vote? Kluk feels we need to let F/R know how we voted and see their reaction. Terani said to give them the opportunity to sit down with them and understand what we are thinking. Williams said we gave ourselves a September deadline and we are past that, the reality is we weren’t able to come up with a good solution, we should move on, someone will petition and we’ll see what happens. Schwartz said that a petition would just be voted down without support and with BoS and PB working against passage. Terani said these are volunteers, risking their lives for the town; we owe it to them to work with them. Hatch said we should let the will of others play out. Kluk said we should go back and have a face-to-face conversation, we owe it to them. Williams said let the process play out. Kluk asked if we are supportive of a feedback meeting with F/R? Crandall will call Moser to get on their agenda. Kluk and Crandall will attend because we don’t have time to notice a meeting with more members attending. Dulac left the meeting at this point.

1.1       Crandall said we have a business permit and application for exemption to the Site Plan Review from Kathleen Philbrook to consider, he said she is hoping to do a business like Uber. Schwartz said it is a ride service that she will run out of her home office, she gets a call and leaves to give the person a ride to their doctor appointment or whatever they need a ride to. Crandall commented that this is a service that is needed in town. Williams asked if the LUO says something about whether we have to uphold the LAE rules. Crandall said we don’t police for their rules. Schwartz said she suggested she speak with the LAE board. There are other existing businesses out in LAE that don’t have any outward sign that they are businesses, they do their business (contracting) at client’s homes not in their homes. Schwartz said there is no outer sign that there is a business going on; she meets the criteria for a minor home (cottage) business. Crandall commented that we are saying she doesn’t need a business permit and she is exempt. Kluk made a motion to approve the exemption, Crandall seconded, three voted in favor with Williams abstaining. Crandall signed the exemption and the business permit; Schwartz will send a copy to Philbrook.

2.0       Adjournment:  11:15 AM

            Respectfully Submitted,  

Nan Schwartz