Washington Planning Board

Washington Planning Board

Working Meeting Minutes

December 13, 2016

0.0       Assembly: 6:30 PM

0.1       Members present: Crandall, Kluk, Schwartz, Dulac, Terani, Hatch and Williams

            0.2       Members and Alternates Absent: Russell

            0.3       Visitors: Shawn Atkins and Jed Schwartz

1.0       Discuss the F/R update: Crandall opened the meeting saying we are here to get an update on the F/R plan so we can decide on what we will present at the Community Meeting. Crandall asked Schwartz to give his opinion but then only answer questions posed to him. Kluk walked us through the numbers for the original 2015 F/R plan and the new plan. She said we were given no breakout on components. We talked about the soft cost and whether they were in the project costs. Atkins figured the cost for the connector and renovation at $300 - 400K. On the Meetinghouse, Kluk presented the numbers for the 2015 and new Drasba plan. She said the warrant total for both would be $3.03 to 3.121M. Dulac asked whether the amount reflected any volunteer effort or fundraising. Williams said that if you add in the soft costs back in the number is $1.856 to 1.924M for the F/R. On the Meetinghouse, there is $35K for the architect and $55K for overseeing construction. Williams said the later isn't needed. We adjusted the totals to include soft costs. J. Schwartz spoke about where we are now, we have a decision to make. F/R agreed to work with PB to look at moving the barn and to reuse the existing station, they engaged to see if we could save some money and hoped there would be a cost savings. The reno cost are up because of retaining walls and concrete and fill due to the slope change and it ended up costing more. If people feel they want to use the existing, the idea was about trying to get costs down, we couldn’t save money doing this. Kluk said that the feedback from Kyle and BPS are that this plan will cost more because of the elevation change. Atkins said this doubled the concrete height costing more money, with the grade changes you have to fill inside the retaining walls and it costs more, you have to bring in select materials to fill, this plan generates costs. Crandall asked about the plan with a straight across barn. Kluk said it didn't save much and was problematic in other ways. Terani asked about the wetland. Atkins explained about wetlands, he recently attended a state workshop on wetlands issues, this is not a high value wetland, and you can mitigate these wetlands created by a culvert and other actions. J. Schwartz said Costello could speak about that, he didn't see a problem getting around the wetlands. Terani said we should speak with DES. Williams said that Costello was concerned about getting a permit, you have to show any alternatives you have considered, the wetlands permits were never filed. Terani asked where we stand with the connector, was a structural analysis done? J. Schwartz said the concern was with the existing building. Atkins said the report said that the trusses would need reinforcing. Kluk said that Kyle said it isn't a big deal to reinforce. Crandall asked if it was triggered by a change in the roofing materials. Williams said that when we met with Kyle he said if we connected we would have to bring the building up to code, that would be the trigger. Kluk said we covered that with Kyle; the amount of renovation (structural wall changes) would be the trigger. J. Schwartz agreed that what we were doing in the existing building triggered the code upgrade. Kluk had notes from our meeting and didn't have the same recollection as Williams. Crandall asked about doing the reno without bringing it up to code. Williams asked what we can do to keep using the building without bringing it up to code? J. Schwartz asked if he wants people working in the building without bringing it up to code? Dulac asked Atkins and Schwartz, we aren't contractors so we look at thing politically, we gave various groups ideas to run with, the MH is cut back, is there anything that can be done? We have real numbers, the OSH has been considered a capital expense for down the road in the $300 a 400K range. We hoped $3M would do the job; we want to make sure we can get all the buildings done. We hoped we could have the Fire guys do some amount of work, is there any room to decrease the cost. Atkins said he would like to say yes but he has to say no, if you go for a loan you have to have the whole project number, volunteers can come in and do some sheet rock or walls, we already volunteer and you are asking for more time from these guys and it's wrong to ask that of them. J. Schwartz said it isn't our building it is the town's building, maybe people from town could come in to help. Dulac agreed, many people in town could help. Williams said when you go for a bond you can say you have a full cost but you are going to pay some of it differently. Atkins said the bond number is the bottom line. Dulac said he has done many bond projects, the town is authorized to raise a certain amount but you don't always end up needing the full amount. Crandall asked if the barn only is out of the question, he feels we should consider it. J. Schwartz said we started with the original plan and cut it down, the 2015 plan is a good one. Kluk said the Meetinghouse started at $2.022M and now is at $1.38M, which is a 32% reduction, the Safety building started at $2.552M and now is at $1.7M, which is a 33% reduction. There have been many reductions we are at 32 a 33% price point for both. Williams commented that the $2.55 F/R plan included the Police Department, so there is no real savings. Schwartz commented that PD was one of the cuts made.

Terani said we reduce and make some gains but we are losing money every year, tomorrow night you have to make people understand what they are losing every year they don't do something. Hatch said we are talking about $130K difference, is there anything we can consider, the empty building was a key point for the BoS, the perception is we were trying not to add another building. Atkins said the old station will be utilized, we scaled down the building and were going to use the existing for storage and other town needs. The other consideration is to tear down the existing building, the cost was $12K to take it away, and there is no burden to the town. He thinks that would be a mistake because the town will use the building. He thinks if we go with the 2015 plan we will take care of Safety. Kluk said there is $130K savings but we don't know what the town will have to spend on the existing. Williams said to recommend going higher so we don't leave a building empty is a bad recommendation from us. Atkins asked about how much is in the buildings fund? Williams said there is $150K in that fund and it can be used for TH, F/R or Police. Atkins said to keep putting $50K in there to build it up. Williams said it takes a vote at town meeting to spend it, if the board comes to a decision we could choose to spend that money. Crandall asked for a recommendation. Williams said the message we have now, there is $1.8 - 1.9 option on the table, what we heard is F/R see no other option, volunteers don't move the number materially, the question is are we willing to get behind that number? He said this isn't the open analysis he was hoping for, rather than doing what 2 or 3 people talked about it and came up with an idea, he doesn't see this happening. Kluk said we don't have to make a recommendation, we are going to present what we have to the public. Dulac thinks it is a information sharing, over 6 months we have wondered what using the existing station and adding a barn would cost and why it costs so much, the public needs to know that and we need to let them know. Terani said when we started this we said we would bring the public up to speed and get feedback; no matter what we do the BoS is going to squash it. Dulac said we are left with the option of a petition article. Schwartz said put the facts out there and let the people decide. Atkins said that towns’ people are looking for direction. Williams agreed that they are. Dulac said we just got these numbers; he isn't ready to make a recommendation, given the facts we have. Williams asked what message are we going to give tomorrow night. Atkins said the board needs to make a decision. Crandall would like to see a half barn to save money. Schwartz said that would not save money, it will cost more in the end. J. Schwartz asked if we really think the town can't afford this, there has been a lot of thoughtfulness and expert work has gone into the plans, Williams got up and sold this plan to the town 2 years ago, what has changed? Williams said we need to find a balance with what the town has to pay and what F/R gets. He said we brought 2 plans to F/R this summer and they were dismissed, you didn't want to look at them. J. Schwartz remembers an open discussion going on and Williams left the meeting. Dulac said there is a trust issue, what data do we trust, the bottom line is we tried to come together, whether we take a stance as a PB is the big question. Are we going to support this or not? We need to trust each other that we are going to move forward and figure out what that is and tell people. Kluk said we will take the high road. Dulac asked what we are going to present. N. Schwartz said we should talk about the process we went through and what choices we have. Williams and Crandall feel we have to pick a plan or present what we have; the ones who show up for this meeting are not the voting body. Hatch said he was not expecting the F/R numbers, the barn only plan was foisted on the town, and there is an F/R plan for the barn and shell that never went before the town. Kluk said we were looking for fully loaded projects. Hatch said that maybe the barn and she'll number needs to be put forward to the town. Kluk said $1.59M for that option. Atkins said it was never brought forward. Hatch said that is the plan he would support. J. Schwartz said we could get numbers but the BoS won't support. Kluk said we didn't know how much it would cost to finish it. Williams said MBAC got updated numbers $1.77M for the full project and 1.59 for the shelled building, he thinks 1.79M is a questionable number. J. Schwartz asked if it is worth considering that. Williams said the board won't support a $3M solution because of the tax burden. They think there is a solution that's cheaper; the F/R wasn't willing to work with them. Atkins said that the sprinkler heads would be in and they could finish it out with local contractors, it would be a heated shell to work off of, that option gives them a way forward. Hatch said he wants to go with that option. Atkins asked if that compromise would be supported by BoS. Williams couldn't say. Dulac said there is another option, $1.59M inflates to $1.653 - 1.685. Williams said with the audience we get, what credibility can we put on the survey, it will be questionable and not representative of the taxpayers. Crandall asked for the motion. Williams offered what they had with WESAC, we offered options and asked which is the one that makes sense or was liked best. Atkins said from F/R, they preferred #1, entire new building, #2 barn with shell; #3 would be the existing with an attached barn. Williams said ballpark numbers are ok; they are based on real numbers.

Schwartz made a motion to present all three options on F/R and say we prefer #2 - barn with shell, Dulac seconded the motion, there were 4 ayes and Williams abstained.

Crandall asked if we should present the original TH project as an option for the MH people. Kluk would answer that we already voted to support the scaled TH.

We went over the PowerPoint presentation and made some adjustments for the decisions made. Kluk will make the changes and we will go over it once more in the morning.

We are meeting at 9AM at TH to go over the presentation and set up for the evening meeting. 

2.0       Adjournment:                       Time: 9:07 PM

Respectfully Submitted,

Nan Schwartz